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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
398
   |
Posted - 2014.05.18 14:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Without a doubt the moros is the best dread for PVE.
For PVP, right now both the moros and the nag are good. After the pheonix changes, the pheonix will be good as well in some scenarios. The rev is garbage in all scenarios.
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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
399
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well if you want to talk about carriers, it's a little less clear cut, but still somewhat straightfoward. Simply put, it's like this (in wormholes at least, since slowcats aren't used outside of niche scenarios).
The archon is the best if you are in a wolf-rayet
The chimera is the best if you are in a pulsar
Otherwise the nidhoggur is the best. If you absolutely need long range capital cap xfers, then the archon is the best (shield tanked).
(Yes you can shield tank the archon, try it). It's still worse than the nid, but it's not that bad |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
401
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 08:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mostly because people are too afraid to carry multi-billion isk refits in their cargo?
You also can't carry a refit for shield to armor or vice versa due to the size of the repping mods. You can fit two cap mods in a carrier at max even if you want to try this.
Also rigs matter a lot more than you would think, particularly for pvp dreads. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
401
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Paikis wrote:
You might be surprised at how well armour dreads do in PvP. You should look into it.
Bonus points for fielding them with Archons to get armour reps.
Armor dreads are ****.
Also just because you're shield tanking doesn't mean your armor repping nidhoggur can't rep your dreads who can now refit 7 lowslots to armor resist mods instead of just 5 (assuming you're running dual rep armor fits). |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
402
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 01:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Uh top kek meights.
Fact is that shield dreads are better in all scenarios. They have higher burst tank and higher dps which is literally all that ever matters. If you need to hit subcaps, you just ******* REFIT MID COMBAT like any sane person. You can talk all you want about comparing armor fits that have 4 slots of tank vs shield fits with 4 slots of tank but that's always irrelevant because shield fits can actually use a full tank setup whereas armor fits can't, unless you want to lose all of your lows (and even then, as I have said, they're still ******* worse).
Armor fits have no advantage ever over shield fits. They waste two slots for unrefittable modules instead of just one, they have significantly lower (and when I say significantly, I mean on the order of 50k dps tanked) burst tank (and when I said burst i really mean 5 minutes of sustained tank), and their mid slots are absolutely ******* useless for dread v dread fights.
I'll reconsider when speed tanked dreads becomes a think and TC's are useful in dread v dread fights.
Fact is if you fight armor dreads v shield dreads the armor dreads will get rekt 100% of the time. If you think otherwise then continue being ignorant and we can all laugh when you get destroyed by any modern dread fleet.
Also, bringing cost into this is stupid because frankly cost never has been, is not, and will never be a balancing factor. If you care about cost when you're flying multi-billion isk dread fits then you're a bloody pansy and shouldn't be flying a dread in the first place. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
403
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 03:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes, first of all there is the fact that you'll pretty much never be in a scenario where you won't be able to rep long enough for your net ehp to be higher than that of an armor dread with slaves.
Plus, I mean I hope you realize that a nag with 3 overloaded c-type invuls + links + DCU + anti-em rig has ~3.2 mil ehp. An armor moros with a DCU, 2 b-type enams, two t1 trimarks, full HG slaves and armor links has about 3.5 mil ehp.
I mean if you go full ******* autist and put on a-type enams, a reactive, an x-type exp, 3 t2 trimarks, and overload, you can get like 6 mil ehp, and potentially more if you decide to figure out the most optimal resist setup. But fact is that you can do the same on the shield fit as well. They're very comparable in terms of ehp.
If you decide to go full autist on the shield fit, just like the armor fit, you could have 3x CDFE's fit, put 5x CN PDU's, and refit to only hardeners and have like 10.5 mil ehp.
If people cared about buffer setups, shield buffer setups would still be better. The reason nobody does this is because the active burst tank shield dread fits are the superior way to survive in dread fights. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
403
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 06:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Hayley Enaka wrote:Except when you factor in the amount of ehp repped before you're capped out that advantage starts to disappear. Shield reps can give twice as much ehp per cycle depending on fit so as long as you can run enough cycles you actually end up with a bit more ehp overall. It's actually not even close to double. Angsty Teenager wrote:Yes, first of all there is the fact that you'll pretty much never be in a scenario where you won't be able to rep long enough for your net ehp to be higher than that of an armor dread with slaves. 2 or more Neut Legions will do it. Any serious capital gank squad will have at least 2. Also, if you're going to do thought experiments, you have to actually put some thought into it and use fits that have a chance of being fielded that isn't zero. EDIT: My numbers show that 2 neut Legions will run the Revelation out of cap in 2m34s and the Naglfar in 2m31s. They also show that the Naglfar is repping a couple thousand more per second. So assuming that once your cap reaches 0, you stay there for the duration, the total eHP of the two ships is as follows (taking into account all 3 layers of defence, as well as overheating) Revelation: 13,247,000 eHP Naglfar: 12,065,764 eHP If we remove the neut Legions, it looks like this: Revelation: 15,088,632 eHP Naglfar: 13,907,834 eHP So you're actually never going to match the eHP of a Revelation. Interestingly, shooting those ships with 2 Naglfars ends up with both ships taking more than 9 minutes to die (10 for the Rev). This tells me that if you have enough carriers on field that you can cap chain, you should never lose Dreadnaughts. But of course almost no one seems to carry the fits required to do this, and so people can lose capitals when they get dropped.
Ok so they're basically the same except that the nag actually is doing dps the whole time. Good to know |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
427
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 01:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Paikis wrote:
This is Blap-Dread DPS against a webbed (x4) and painted (x2) Legion. Blue is Moros, green is Naglfar and red is Revelation. That solid line that ***** on the other three until 35kms? That's the Phoenix.
Hi there.
Please shush. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
427
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 05:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paikis wrote:
Hi there.
Eat a bag of dicks.
Whoa.
Rude. |
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